The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:
“The believer is not given to cursing, slandering or obscene and foul speech.”
Narrated by Ahmad, 3948; al-Tirmidhi, 1977

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Old 06-19-2006, 03:28 AM   #11
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ok, how many thnk that yvonne ridley is going to botch the reply...? I do. So let's do something, let's refute (based on the Qura'an and Sunnah) this sami character ourselves and mail yvonne our thoughts. How's that?
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Old 06-19-2006, 07:38 AM   #12
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I stopped reading at the Britain loyalty part.

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Old 06-19-2006, 08:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helper
ok, how many thnk that yvonne ridley is going to botch the reply...? I do. So let's do something, let's refute (based on the Qura'an and Sunnah) this sami character ourselves and mail yvonne our thoughts. How's that?
Good idea
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Old 06-19-2006, 10:19 AM   #14
Talibah-Muslimah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu GG
He really did show her up as being an emotional monster, whilst he keeping his calm replied in a gentle manner that seems to be nothing but the truth. One would feel slight sympathy for him, I mean the man seems pretty hurt (as he admits, and his tone is typical of an oppressed person who is actually in the right).
His whole idea of integration is a good one. If understood in the correct context of course. And I think he used that point and went deeep into it cause it added weight to the message as a whole.
Well brother you know when you are angry about something you do tend to be emotional if you read the seerah then you can find plenty of examples of muslims becoming emotional for something thats worth being emotional over . Its really hard to stay silent when muslims are sucking up to a flag thats flying on the Tanks in Afganistan and Iraq !!

Integration , when will the muslims wake up Allah says in the Quran do not take the christians and Jews as your friends, dont you think Allah knows better whats in the hearts of them ? Subhaan Allah I know better than most having come them .I go out rather than integrate and thats with family !!! Integration means attending their holidays which means being around people who drink and fornicate in their spare time slowly slowly you compromise your religion become more liberal look for dodgy fatwas that will help you compromise . We can never integrate to do so would lead to our own downfall .
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Old 06-19-2006, 10:48 AM   #15
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This is not a refutation but rather a thought(sorry Helper).

Quote:
As a Muslim artist, I regularly seek clarification and advice from world-renowned scholars on art, music, singing and culture. Be informed that the subject of music is one of the most controversial topics in Islamic Jurisprudence. I respect those who consider music to be haram. Yes eminent scholars of our past have opined such. However, I respect and follow the opinion of other eminent scholars – classical and contemporary, who permit singing and the use of musical instruments. The well-established jurisprudential rule states that ‘in matters where there is ikhtilaf (differences of opinion) there is to be no condemnation of either opinion.’
I would like to know who these 'world-renowned' and 'eminent' scholars of our past are and where they said music was halal or even where the ikhtilaf is?

Quote:
Extremism and extremists have no place in Islam and in our civil societies. “Perished are the extremists” is a famous Prophetic tradition. Extremism is not a problem unique to Islam. Every religion, every way of life, every ideology has its puritans and those willing to distort and misinterpret it to meet their own agenda. And these are no different to those that commit acts of terror, who preach extremism, and who sow seeds of hatred in the name if Islam.
This boggles me? He never really states what an extremist is other than 'puritans'(which is not a bad thing in the least) and 'those who commit acts of terror', and if that is the case according to the true meaning of terror he is telling Yvonne to work with the terrorists(the western gov's).

I would like to know how and in which way these 'puritans' have distorted "and misinterpret it to meet their own agenda". And if they have, what is their agenda? And is it not from Islam? And where is the proof that it is not?

I am not saying that I agree with 'those extremist' that he is speaking of, but I am just at a stand still cause I am not sure who in the world he is speaking of?!?!

I just find it funny how the Muslims are judging what is extreme according to the kuffar rather than according to the Muslims(thats what it seems this was). I could not find anything in what he calls an extremist different from what Bush calls an extremist.

What is terror, what is the 'middle path', and what is puritanicle according to Islam? Not according to Bush, CNN, BBC, the orientalists, the left, the right and anyone else that has an 'agenda' as Sami put it...
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Old 06-19-2006, 11:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel aljughaifi
I just find it funny how the Muslims are judging what is extreme according to the kuffar rather than according to the Muslims(thats what it seems this was). I could not find anything in what he calls an extremist different from what Bush calls an extremist.

What is terror, what is the 'middle path', and what is puritanicle according to Islam? Not according to Bush, CNN, BBC, the orientalists, the left, the right and anyone else that has an 'agenda' as Sami put it...
Exactly my point.
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:06 PM   #17
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interessant.
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:48 PM   #18
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Pop Star Bashing Gets Blessings and Bombs
YVONNE RIDLEY
Friday, May 26, 2006
MY e-mail inbox has been overflowing these past few weeks on a subject that seems to have gripped the Muslim world since I gave it an airing in this newspaper.

Muslims Weekly is published in New York, but its readers are around the world. I've had to switch off my cell phone and no longer answer my landline because of the volume of calls. From Melbourne to Medina, from Baghdad to Birmingham, from Fallujah to Florida, and from every major town and city where Muslims reside, I've been inundated. There's even a rap song doing the rounds, and blogs are emerging throughout the Internet on the subject. Last week I was in Qatar, and I was asked about it; and then on the weekend I went to Copenhagen in Denmark for an international conference, and it was a topic of conversation with several circles. Even an imam I met from Norway's northern city Tromso (known as "the Land of the Midnight Sun" because it is north of the Arctic Circle) had read the column.
In my 30 years of journalism, I haven't had this volume of reaction to anything I have ever written before. What made this international response even more rewarding was the fact that 98 per cent of all writers, callers, and message-droppers were in support of, or largely approved of, what I had written. The subject that riled so many was about the pop culture that I believe is growing around some so-called Nasheed artists. Of course, I used the term ‘Nasheed artists' very lightly and opted for the terms "Islamic boy bands" and "Muslim popsters" instead. I called the group Mecca2Medina a "boy band," and --boy, oh boy!-- were they rattled! The boys --oops, sorry-- the guys have now produced a rap song rapping me and insisting that they "ain't no boy band." Point taken. For the record, they are an Islamic Hip Hop and Ragga Band; I checked out their website and am still being counseled from the experience.

The pop culture article sparked a debate across the globe about music and Islam and what is haram. I mentioned that many eminent scholars throughout history had declared that music is haram, and for that I was called a "burnt-out Salafi" by one enraged individual.

My editor expects me, as a columnist, to be provocative and produce thoughtful articles; otherwise, readers would simply switch off and read something else. The article stimulated a debate across the Ummah, and that can't be bad. The article was never meant to demonize singer Sami Yusuf, who does have a beautiful voice, mash'Allah. But he was asking for it when he urged his audience to cheer loudly if they were proud to be British. As I pointed out, Britain is the third most hated country in the world. The Union Jack is drenched in the blood of our brothers and sisters across Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. Our history is steeped in the blood of colonialism, rooted in slavery, brutality, torture, and oppression. And we haven't had a decent game of soccer since we lifted the World Cup in 1966. (With a bit of luck, that last point might change as the World Cup in Germany is fast approaching).


I asked why Sami was so proud to be British -not an unreasonable question, I thought. Someone wrote and told me that he is actually an Azeri and not born in Britain. Yet he does describe himself on his website as a British singer, and his Wikpedia entry is rather vague. He does dwell in that great Middle Eastern democracy of Egypt where he'd end up singing like a boy soprano if he freely expressed any sort of opinion against the regime there.

The debate is still raging, and scholars are now becoming embroiled in this one. I feel that, it spite of fatwas, the issue will continue unresolved. I do hope that management companies across the West think twice before trying to turn Nasheed concerts into pop events or turn their singers into pop idols. I am not a scholar, and I doubt I ever will be one, and, as a Muslim, I'm barely three years old, but one of the first things I learned is that we idolize or worship none but Allah (swt).

I am truly grateful for the stimulating debate and the genuine interest shown in the pros and cons of the growing pop culture around nasheed artists; however, I would have been much happier if I had had a similar response when I first told the world, in this column, of the atrocities going on in Abu Ghraib, or the scandal of the Ghost Detainees, or the use of chemical weapons and war crimes being carried out in Fallujah. Perhaps it is a sad indictment or even a true reflection on the state of the Ummah that we get so steamed up about boy bands, hip hop ragga-whatevers, music in Islam, etc., when there's so much more to make us angry instead.
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Old 06-19-2006, 02:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel aljughaifi
I would like to know who these 'world-renowned' and 'eminent' scholars of our past are and where they said music was halal or even where the ikhtilaf is?
assalamu alaikum,
i think he is referring to ibn hazm and al-ghazali. an additional "argument" is that the hadith in bukhari about "there will come a people who make permissable...musical instruments" is mu'allaq and therefore not authentic. you can read a good analysis of this by abu bilal mustafa al-kanadi in his book on music&singing in islam - the relevant portion is here

http://members.tripod.com/oum_abdulaziz/music2.html#H

abu bilal's explanation alhamdulillah is really on target and closes the door on a lot of these arguments people bring forth.

also, i might be wrong about this, but i'm pretty sure ibn hajar wrote a book in which he brought the chains for all the mu'allaq hadith in bukhari and proved that they were authentic.
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Old 06-19-2006, 03:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
however, I would have been much happier if I had had a similar response when I first told the world, in this column, of the atrocities going on in Abu Ghraib, or the scandal of the Ghost Detainees, or the use of chemical weapons and war crimes being carried out in Fallujah. Perhaps it is a sad indictment or even a true reflection on the state of the Ummah that we get so steamed up about boy bands, hip hop ragga-whatevers, music in Islam, etc., when there's so much more to make us angry instead.
subhanAllah
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